@Friendica Support
Hi there.
As the new friendica stable version has come out recently and apparently there aren't mayor problems with the updates I wanted to ask you to consider some suggestions about the helpers/coders/admins etc pp setup we have on forum.friendi.ca
In general terms speaking when ever someone comes up with some bug report or feature request some comment show up saying "go to github and ..".
There are several reasons I consider this is not to helpful and that we should find at least some work around. First of all we all know and are aware by whom github is owned and that there are more than one of us out here who don't like to go to that site for that very reason. At the same time it is where the coding community is, where cross over communication between the fedeVerse platforms can happen and where in any case recruitment and help request for none friendica specific issues can be found or can be published. So even as we have git.friendi.ca as a a very important back up plan and backup tool it most likely will not become part of our production scheme in the near future.
Than there is the friendica community itself, a whole lot of people that are using friendica and have access to the forum.friendi.ca server with the few forum pages that do exist as of now. These are people that might not be skilled in coding itself but could do bug research, publish bug reports, have feature requests or ideas, could help out with standard helpers Q&A or even translation hints or pointing out missing translations.
I do guess that we might have more than one community member out there that is not available to sign up to another site like github or transifex (I guess that's still our translation site?) but would help out if we'd had some more forumpages like @bugresearch, @tutorial, @featureRequests. I could envision even people who love to dedicate some time to administer a forumpage like @tutorial that once some text has been created by the community in such a forum could republish such a text from that very forum page sorting that text into a given category of that forumpage.
Like to say, there is lot's of information that get's discussed or explained and than just "goes down the drain" and get's lost in the stream instead of being pushed into some category of the helpers page where it could be found easily by others.
A bugResearch forumpage for example could have a pinned post containing a bug research template like the following so people could post there findings in the first place and every once in a while someone who does have a github account and signs "responsible" to port those reports to github simple copy-pastes those reports to github with a link to the respective forum post.
Example bug research template for a @bugResearch froumPage on forum.friendi.ca:
#bugResearch
Platform Info: 2023.05 - old stable | VIER | firefox
Friendica Version: 2023.05 - old stableTheme: VIER
Browser: firefox
Friendica Source: gitHub
PHP version: 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14
SQL version: MySQL / MariaDB
memory_limit 256M
4 Core CPU, 8 GB Ram with 300GB NVME Disk
I did/n't have a look at gitHub
Short bug description:
Overall summary of the issue.Replace the texts inside this and the following spoilers with your description.
Details of the buggy behavior:
Try to explain in short sentences and with precise wording what happens.¿Possible to reproduce, if so how:
step one to reproduce the problemstep two
step three
Expected result:
¿what should be the correct behavior?¿what did you expect?
Screenshots:
information for dev and server team:
php.error.log
LEAVE THIS AS IS, the server team will use this report if possible/necessary---------------------------------------------------------------------------
code of this example bug report
#bugResearch
[spoiler=Platform Info: 2023.05 - old stable | VIER | firefox]Friendica Version: 2023.05 - old stable
Theme: VIER
Browser: firefox
Friendica Source: gitHub
PHP version: 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.14
SQL version: MySQL / MariaDB
memory_limit 256M
4 Core CPU, 8 GB Ram with 300GB NVME Disk[/spoiler]
I [b]did/n't[/b] have a look at gitHub
[spoiler=Short bug description:]Overall summary of the issue.
Replace the texts inside this and the following spoilers with your description.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Details of the buggy behavior:]Try to explain in short sentences and with precise wording what happens.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=¿Possible to reproduce, if so how:]step one to reproduce the problem
step two
step three
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Expected result:]¿what should be the correct behavior?
¿what did you expect?[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Screenshots:]
[img=]the better and dedicated the screenshot and the info involved the better[/img]
[img=]don't include unnecessary or compromising details in the screenshot[/img][/spoiler]
[hr][hr]
information for dev and server team:
[spoiler=php.error.log]LEAVE THIS AS IS, the server team will use this report if possible/necessary[/spoiler]Emily Fox likes this.
Michael Vogel
in reply to utopiArte • • •We need to have the issues in our repository, since we link them with our coding. Also this is needed for the milestone planning. We need to have an overview of pending tasks.
The problem is the opposite: I guess that many good ideas or bug reports got lost in the past, when they only had been published in the forum, since it is hard to keep track of all them here.
like this
Schmaker a OldKid ⁂ like this.
utopiArte
in reply to Michael Vogel • • •That's in part exactly what I'm talking about when I say:
"there is lot's of information that get's discussed or explained and than just "goes down the drain" and get's lost in the stream"
My proposal is to create specific forumpage for bugs and have specific people in charge of keeping track of those bugResearches and posting them to github.
That is obvious, the idea is not to evade or skip the tool github.
This is about pre-sorting (Vorsortieren) on our own communication platform the issues and publish them than on github, actually in a more precise and standardized way.
OldKid ⁂
in reply to utopiArte • • •Friendica Support reshared this.
utopiArte
in reply to OldKid ⁂ • • •Can't see that point @OldKid.
Github is github, what is over there is what counts (was zählt) for the coders.
If one person (of course permaculture rule 1<2 always applies) is in charge of porting verified reports to github, that person is someone aware of the github bug list and also on eventual bug researches on the @bugResearch forum page, so in any case can hint if something is already under research or if that ongoing research has just been posted to github.
I consider this on one side as a disentanglement of the helpers forum where as of now all sorts of requests come up, being it "how to" questions, eventual bug claims, feature requests and other topics.
The proposal tries to create on one hand a more dedicated handling of these topics by different people, releasing a few very active members of reading thru all that stuff when they actually could dedicate their time to more specific tasks. On the other hand it creates an environment where newbees can start helping out inside the community and the friendica framework. Once they feel confident with that they might switch more into deep becoming active in porting texts to the help pages, learning how to use transifex or other things.
Right now the helpers forum is a bit of everything yet friendica is quite complicated itself. The fact that the fediVerse has several platforms that display things differently and at the same time makes people try out friendica coming from other setups, with the respective layouts and particularities, implies quite a lot of help and introduction needed.
Actually more or less every question is answered in the help pages yet humans are more like an interacting species that likes to ask spontaneously questions. Doing this adressing the helpers forum more than once felt like talking into the emptiness of space and time being ghosted, as the coders are doing all at once, have already written down everything in the help pages and well .. are coders and not from the "human resources" management team. 😀
Reporting a bug or a suspicion of something that doesn't work as expected to the helpers forum getting no answer, if it's not a bug, or the answers like "report that on gitHub!" feels like:
"Sh** the f** up and respect the well known procedure!"
Meanwhile the community grows and the same well known few characters out here are doing what they can everywhere at the same time, addressing newbee questions, reading noise, handling github and so on and so on and so on ..
And if you ask politely and throw an option to diversify and disentangle, proposing to improve the use of a communication platform to communicate about the issues of that very communication platform, the basic reaction, as always on the internet, is:
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utopiArte
in reply to OldKid ⁂ • • •@OldKid
And no, it is not!
If a user that considers he has found a bug goes to the respective bug research forum and finds on top pinned the bug report layout as posted here, he has to start thinking in the first place to answer the given questions and look more precisely into what he has found and to spell it out and document it in a way it is usefull for the coders before hand. Once all that is done, maybe with some Q&A help by the community, we will end up with a precise report detailed in a standardized manner that shows up on github releaving the coders over there of all the Q&A work that happens other wise over there consuming their precious time cluttering the github pages.
If at the same time those bug reports get sorted with a simple _Quote Share_ by the forum page adminsitrator into categories on the forum page, that info is available inside the friendica framework and is presorted and their for, as Michael already pointed out, doesn't disappear because it's hard to track in a stream of all sorts of help issues.
Friendica Support reshared this.
Michael Vogel
in reply to utopiArte • • •Friendica Support reshared this.
utopiArte
in reply to Michael Vogel • • •It's a preselection process, and about a separation of the different issues that right now all end up in the helpers forum page.
Nobody is talking about having to reflect the later process that evolves on github back to the forum page.
If you have a look at one of the latest comments about a problem that shows up in my timeline:
Just to be clear - I'm running latest release, not git develop branch
you'll find exactly one of the details I just tried to explain to OldKid in the previous answer.
Schmaker
2024-01-17 13:10:54
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Schmaker
in reply to utopiArte • •Seems like I got quoted, so I also react to this.
My posts weren't bug reports, but support request as I was not sure if it's not expected behavior. Also - you might have noticed - Roland did code check already and I asked if I'm supposed to create bug report.
It was actually faster for Roland to just fix it. Only reason I revived the thread was that there might be a some leftover to fix as the problem didn't shown for day or so and then it reappeared for a while.
And in every single part of this conversation I'm still willing to create bug report 😀
utopiArte likes this.
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utopiArte
in reply to Schmaker • • •The mention itself was unintentional @Schmaker.
I used your comment that added information on your topic to point out the usefulness of a "pinned bug report layout" as the layout pretends to hint beforehand to all probably useful information in cases like your post.
As you might find in my posts and answers, that's exactly what I'm talking about as we don't know when we stumble over something if it's a bug, some issue or maybe even ends up becoming a request for something new. As you see for example in the template, there is the part "what behavior did you expect?"
Same here, as it is a proposal to improve the environment over here where we can presort issues before creating new issues on github itself, it can speed up things as in your case or at least pin down the issue over here in the first place to than create an precise and short description on github.
That's perfect than!
The fact that you are able and feel fine by doing so the better. If that would have been the case I guess you had stated that in your post and created then the issue on github. Other wise maybe Roland would have done that statement and created the issue over there or for example once a week the person that attends the
problems/bugs/IT-helpRequest forum pagewould have attended (also) your post, created the issue on github and maybe also a quote reshare sorting it into a category like "PHP" or some category your issue fitted into.In any case this even would mean a issue backup for the friendica community besides the existing on github itself. As well as another learning/DIY chapter of our conversations out here for everyone.
Right now for example we probably have discussions and issues/work arounds about updating the friendica servers to the new stable release. If these discussions where sorted into a category
/friendicaUpdate2023-12stablewe would have a whole chapter about that for to digg into later on when ever someone has to update his server and runs into problems.👍
(and btw, thx for your comment, you just gave me an idea for a gif adaptation so I can relieve my pain into some creative gimping .. 😀
Schmaker likes this.
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xy..
in reply to utopiArte • • •Friendica Support reshared this.
utopiArte
in reply to xy.. • • •> Why can you not use it?
To begin with that can be a personal issues, there is no use to discuss it.
What I'm talking first of all about is that friendica has thousands and thousands of users that stumble over something or want/need to talk about something while using this platform. They are no coders and don't want to become coders, nore should they need to create a new profile on another platform, learn the where abouts and how abouts of that platform just to mention that something is not working or not working as expected.
You guys are looking at the world from the perspective of coding nerds, that's fine with me, but you are creating a platform for simple human beings that try to use it and want and need to use it just inside that platform. And when these John Does try to communicate with the gods of this space the answer is:
"Be like us or go f** yourself!"
(sry but some times ironic sarcasm is the only way to get rid of desperation when you use the same words but don't speak the same language nor live in the same world or perceive the world in the same way)
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xy..
in reply to utopiArte • • •utopiArte
in reply to xy.. • • •Friendica Support reshared this.
utopiArte
in reply to utopiArte • • •@Tobias
Who is administering forum.friendi.ca right now?
Do the specif forum-pages have specific people in charge?
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Steffen K9 🍮
in reply to utopiArte • • •utopiArte likes this.
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utopiArte
in reply to Steffen K9 🍮 • • •Roland Häder likes this.
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utopiArte
in reply to utopiArte • • •Friendica Support reshared this.
Steffen K9 🍮
in reply to utopiArte • • •Sorry, I didn't get any DM.
Concerning the need for moderation on the groups node forum.friendi.ca: If I remember correctly, I took over the hosting and administration of our community node in 2016. In all these years there were only one or two cases where moderation was necessary. The administration is not a big deal, either.
From my point of view the best way to advance and improve community support is having people answering questions and giving hints how to use and run Friendica. We have made much progress in that. Some years ago there were only a few active supporters in our groups/forums. These days I see much more people who are helping others.
utopiArte likes this.
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utopiArte
in reply to Steffen K9 🍮 • • •> DM
The remindme bot has different ways to get a reminder answer. To prevent spamming everyone, one can ad "DM" to the remindme command so that remindme mastodon account sends the reminding note as a restricted toot: "@"
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utopiArte
in reply to Steffen K9 🍮 • • •With moderation of our forum pages I didn't mean resolving conflicts, not at all, but doing some active stuff as or for the profiles themselfs.
I tried to address those options in the beginning of this post.
On one hand I consider that the help requests to the helpers forum reflect a variety and amount that allows to split that forum up into several forums, something like:
I find it not only a pity but a waste of energy and loss of information that conversations, hints and descriptions how to solve issues or problems vanish in the stream and consider that there should be possibilities to prevent this by splitting up the helpers forum, adding some improvements by pinning some help, like in the case of eventual bugs the proposed layout for bug descriptions, and doing some active sorting in case of discussions or content that's worth it.
Not sure to what extent we would need access to profiles on the forum server itself or if we just can address those things by granting permissions to profiles that are hosted somewhere else. Looking at profile options I guess we should be able to do that, it's just that I never actually used it.It looks like the best way to do something like that would be to create some profiles located on the forum server itself and grant them delegate status for the pages they want to take care of. Those profiles should be used only for that very purpose and not for any form of standard use of profiles like personal posts.
utopiArte
in reply to utopiArte • • •@Steffen K9 🍮
Can you pin the following bug research info layout on the helpers page?
That way people get a better idea what is needed of info to adress their queries.
Also, if we could add a spoiler with the respective prepared markdown code, people can use it to post on github their report.
Kliknutím otevřete/zavřete
how the bug report actually looks like:
#bugResearchPlatform Info: friendica VERSION
Friendica Version: (you find this information on your server at yourfriendicanode.com/VERSIONFriendica Source: ( most likely gitHub)
PHP version: (if this is relevant information ask you admin in any case)
SQL version: (if this is relevant information ask you admin in any case)
memory_limit: (if this is relevant information ask you admin in any case)
resources: (?X) Core CPU, (?) GB Ram with (?)GB Disk
I did/n't have a look at gitHub
Short bug description:
Overall summary of the issue.Replace the texts inside this and the following spoilers with your description.
Details of the buggy behavior:
Link to the respective friendica helpers forum page discussion if there is.Try to explain in short sentences and with precise wording what happens.
¿Possible to reproduce, if so how:
step one to reproduce the problemstep two
step three
Expected result:
¿what should be the correct behavior?¿what did you expect?
Screenshots:
Information for dev and server team:
php.error.log
LEAVE THIS AS IS, the server team will use this report if possible/necessaryFriendica Support reshared this.