Many are asking me to put my videos on PeerTube, but every time I look at it, I see an overly technical user experience that I do not trust to take off.

What we need is for Mastodon to become a video platform, so THIS social medium which has now matured and people clearly love, gets robust video features.

You do not beat YouTube by making users jump through hoops to watch a video. You beat YouTube by making user sponsored creator videos turn up right in the Mastodon feed.

@anderspuck

Tato položka byla upravena (1 týden ago)
in reply to Randahl Fink

The media in this post is not displayed to visitors. To view it, please go to the original post.

Not sure I follow though. Where are the hoops?

video.troed.se/w/15HvjBSTeuLHX…

@anderspuck @Gargron


Future of Innovation with Troed Sångberg at EBE11


The recorded livestream from my talk at the EBE11 conference in Seville, Spain.

Original, since deleted: agoranews.es/2011/11/11/evento…
Conference and talk information: web.archive.org/web/2011111014…


in reply to Troed Sångberg

@troed
1. I cannot watch your video inside the Mastodon client app I am using. Instead I am forced into another platform with a different UI.
2. I cannot comment on your video without going through an additional authentication process on a different platform.
3. The comments are not visible under your post here on Mastodon.
4. I cannot become a financial supporter of your content.
5. I cannot see suggested content from other Mastodon users at the end of your video.

etc.

@anderspuck @Gargron

in reply to Randahl Fink

I think it boils down to you already having a Google account, which means that if you watch a video on Xitter you're already - in addition to X - authenticated on Youtube.

The same isn't done in the Fediverse. Your Mastodon account isn't automatically also a PeerTube account [on the instance with the video being hosted]. I mean, my account on my Mastodon instance isn't an authentication to mastodon.social either.

This will only be solved if Mastodon servers also act as distributed authentication servers that other Fediverse servers accept. I agree we probably should move in that direction, but the hurdles will be ... immense.

@anderspuck @Gargron

in reply to Troed Sångberg

@troed that would be a really good start.

Imagine if 50,000 creators sponsored the servers to carry the video content, and it was just seamlessly available on Mastodon, and users could then support the creators financially directly from inside Mastodon.

This is what creators on X get, and if Mastodon offered something similar, I would go that route immediately.

@anderspuck @Gargron

in reply to Randahl Fink

@troed @gargron Issue 1+2 are maybe a problem of your app. Try the webinterface or different app. On top of that: Peertube instances can shut comments off or require additional auth. Or can block entire instances. Thats a good thing (very good!).

Issue 3: Well: yes of course they are visible. Proof: social.tchncs.de/@erik@video.f…

Issue 4: Of course, but that depends on the creator. And tax regulations and more.

Issue 5: No and thats is very good. Who needs paternalism? I know for myself what I want to see. Suggestions always mean that someone is evaluating your behavior. And save it for later use - against you and for ad revenue.

in reply to Randahl Fink

First of all - being on #PeerTube does not mean you need to leave #Mastodon - you can both follow and interact with videos directly from #Fediverse instance

You can also #boost them (just put the PeerTube URL in the search bar)

You can also follow PeerTube channel into #Podcast applications through #RSS and such.

Yes, UX has some round edges, but if you manage to try, it's quite powerfull tool.

And no, you will not achieve same result with Mastodon. Ever.

Also - it's time to stop talking PeerTube like it was supposed to replace YouTube - it will not. It's an alternative and it's quite bang for the buck actually.

in reply to Viðrir (your friendly viking)

The videos could be hosted seperately behind the scenes.

I would pay good money to have my Mastodon account “video creator enabled”, if this enables me to share my videos to the audience I love.

But asking people to download yet another app and create yet another account and follow me on yet another platform is just not a viable way forward.

Yes, you can watch PeerTube from a hyperlink, but that is not a full YouTube experience with creator support, debate, etc.
@anderspuck @Gargron

Tato položka byla upravena (1 týden ago)
in reply to Randahl Fink

@Vidrir People are telling you that you can follow Peertube accounts from your Mastodon account. Only the creator needs both apps (and only if he also wants a Mastodon account). And while I personally don't have a Peertube account, I do have a Pixelfed (Fedi "instagram") account, and ⅘ of my followers are Mastodon accounts. I've had comment threads that were a mix of Pixelfed and Madtodon accounts.

The integration exists. It is not perfect, but it does work.

Which is very much the opposite of what you are comparing to, you can't follow or comment on Youtube channels in the Twitter app.

in reply to Randahl Fink

Keyword is #boost.

Boost your #PeerTube video to #Mastodon and you get exactly what you're talking about in this comment.

Only thing, that's required is your account on PeerTube. Not sure if Mastodon can handle this, but I can automatically boost all my videos from my PeerTube account using #Friendica mirroring ability.

in reply to Randahl Fink

@Vidrir @gargron
Thats my opinion as very small content creator who is peertube exclusive:
You're comparing one of the world's biggest companies to a small foundation that relies on donations (and has one fulltime developer, i think? I´m not sure.)

Apart from a browser, no one needs an additional app to use Peertube. Youtube is an website, too.
A Fediverse account, however, is really helpful. So you can like, boost and comment peertube videos.

And yes, peertube means video hosting and lacks many community features and other things. but the software is growing and it is opensource. If you need something: Everyone can contribute in different ways or donate some money.

in reply to Randahl Fink

I think you are right.

Non-tech users just want a single identity to be able to communicate.

An identity might then have limited abilities - it might not be able to communicate a video. But a payment might fix that.

For the broader audience this must be fixed.

And we need a true standardized #micropayment protocol, supported by browsers and (European) banks.

in reply to Randahl Fink

The media in this post is not displayed to visitors. To view it, please go to the original post.

Maybe you should learn more about what you're talking about, Randahl. I was perfectly able to watch this video and leave a comment underneath it. As for monetary support, I don't see Mastodon provide such means any better than PeerTube does.
@randahl @benfulton @anderspuck
in reply to Osma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦

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@osma I was shown this UI, and I promise you, that is not just an authentication dialog, that is a wall which sends 9 out of 10 users elsewhere.

Countless times I hear tech-savvy people say they do not understand why the average user can’t just google her way to content on a platform she does not know, and create an account, and find her way through an interface she does not understand.

She can’t. And that is the point.

Friction is a killer.

@benfulton @anderspuck

in reply to Randahl Fink

Not sure this is where the friction is, but his peertube account is @anderspuck@muku.dk. and then he can boost posts from there into his main feed, but it seems he also shares his videos posted on other platforms.
Personally Peertube is the only video platform in which I subscripe to creators, precisely because I don't need other accounts and feeds than my mastodon one.
@randahl @benfulton @anderspuck@mastodon.social
Tato položka byla upravena (1 týden ago)
in reply to Randahl Fink

You don't have to if he boosts the videos in his main account.
For me it's also an advantage, as it makes it easy to follow the video content separately from microblog posts. Just because I want to subscribe to someone's videos it doesn't mean I want to see everything they post online.
Another advantage is that it plays better with other non-mastodon sites. Here's the war talk channel as seen on (the Reddit-like site) Piefed, for example:
piefed.social/c/wartalk@muku.d…
@randahl @anderspuck @benfulton
Tato položka byla upravena (1 týden ago)
in reply to Randahl Fink

but this applies to you too, right? commenting on your toot, watching your video on youtube and supporting your work on patreon/kofi/etc . three platforms. so i would support what was stated earlier: fedivierse it is. mastodon (or alternatives), peertube for videos and building a supportive community via patreon, kofi or alikes. i'm ready to suppport you and @anderspuck
with €5 monthly. as you're not the only ones i spend a 5er on this of course isn't feasible for everyone. i know.
@benfulton
in reply to 𝙳𝚊𝚒𝚕𝚢 𝙵𝚒𝚜𝚑𝚠𝚛𝚊𝚙

@Sheep_Overboard
Microsoft is not here to stay. VISA is not here to stay. Booking.com is not here to stay. Neither are X nor YouTube.

At least not if you or some organization or country you're part of becomes sufficiently unpopular with Donald Trump. This has happened already.

For our own safety, we're building alternatives.
@randahl

in reply to Randahl Fink

@AccordingtoWouter @Gargron

I depends on your niche and audience. A lot of YouTube creators do not meet the criteria for monetization.

I think the biggest problem for PeerTube is the myth of making money on YouTube.

My example; Small YT channel, not monetized. After I made the jump to Peertube in January, I actually made enough money by selling seeds to cover the microphone expense. The community is more supportive outside YouTube.

The whole "trying to game the algoritme" part of YouTube is destroying it - It gave us AI slob and clickbait.
After I started to publish to PeerTube, I feel a change in pride and joy in my videoes, hard to explain but I feel more free. Making something for others not for the algoritme.

in reply to Benjamin Lyng Jørgensen

@benjaminlj If you are right, then I suppose in a few months @anderspuck will have hundreds of thousands of subscribers on PeerTube, like he does on YouTube, just because his content is now available on PeerTube.

Forgive me, but no matter how much I love Anders’ content, I doubt that. Because the UI experience matters.

My average 60-year-old viewer on YouTube has zero incentive for switching to an inferior user experience on an unknown platform with a UI she does not understand. Zero.

in reply to Randahl Fink

okay, no. But no amount of UX-work could pull your regular viewers away from a platform they've been using for a decade. My point is that the problem is cultural much more than technical. But if the content is good, the tone is friendly, the moderation fair ect. we might slowly pull more and more users towards the fediverse. #enshitification on YouTube will help too.
in reply to Randahl Fink

With respect, totally disagree with what you are saying.

Following and interacting with a PeerTube account from Mastodon already works 100% exactly like following a Mastodon account from Mastodon.

You can try it with @michellemay for example. Just click the account, click "follow". Zero hoops.

When a new video is published it appears in your Mastodon timeline just like Mastodon posts.

When you reply to a video post in Mastodon it automatically becomes a comment in PeerTube.

Tato položka byla upravena (1 týden ago)
in reply to Fedi.Video

"You beat YouTube by making user sponsored creator videos turn up right in the Mastodon feed."

This is already how it works. If you follow PeerTube accounts from Mastodon they appear in your Mastodon feed. They look just like Mastodon posts, and you interact with them just like Mastodon posts.

That's the entire point of the Fediverse, that no matter which platform you are on you can follow accounts from other platforms and their posts will turn up in your feed.

Tato položka byla upravena (1 týden ago)
in reply to Randahl Fink

@FediVideo I think that is a valid point.

But it's a point about Ivory, and all the other clients, including the Mastodon default website view.

Right now, they don't have any capability of rendering the "Video" document type — which is what PeerTube and others use — only "Note".

I think it would be greatly beneficial if Ivory, and Tusky, and other clients would be able to directly play the Video documents in-app, and also display the "Document" document type (i.e., blog articles).

in reply to Fedi.Video

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@FediVideo It does, but it's nowhere near usable.

I would love it to be.

But the current experience, with a video in a tiny screen with the "fullscreen" button greyed out and not working it is not great.

And that's not even talking about the mobile clients that many people would use, including myself.

Dismissing UI concerns with technical answers might work for me, but not for the vast amount of "normal" people.

in reply to Derick Rethans

I wasn't dismissing UI concerns with technical answers. I was pointing out you can already follow and interact with PeerTube accounts the same way you can follow and interact with Mastodon accounts.

The question of viewing embedded videos is a separate one that affects YouTube etc embedding too.

I spend most of my spare time helping non-technical people use the Fediverse on my sites and accounts. They are central to my work on here.

Tato položka byla upravena (1 týden ago)
in reply to Fedi.Video

@FediVideo
I tried the following frontends:

- Mastodon Web with Firefox, Fennec and Chrome Browser
- Mastodon Android Client
- Pachli
- Moshidon
- Fedilab
- Phanpy Web

I follow TheLinuxExperiment for a while now, so I see there postings on their peertube instance in my timeline.
With all of the above frontends I always have the same user experience: clicking the video is opening a browser window with a complete different GUI.
None of them is playing the video embedded in the apps GUI

@randahl @thelinuxexperiment

in reply to Fedi.Video

@FediVideo
You are totally right. The native apps and Phanpy: a preview of the video, but no 'play' button. When you click on the preview a browser window is opened, showing the peertube GUI.
Completely different when you use the native Mastodon web client: when you click on video's link, browser opens up with peertube GUI, BUT, when you look at the video preview there is a 'play' button and by clicking this the video is displayed in the Mastodon GUI.

@randahl

in reply to Randahl Fink

@FediVideo
Not perfect, true, but everyone knows how to use a web browser. Nobody said there isn't room for improvement, but improvement doesn't come from starting over with a tool (Mastodon) that wasn't designed for the purpose (video)

You should still be able to like/boost/comment right there in the Ivory app, without needing a peertube account.

in reply to Randahl Fink

@Gargron YouTube didn’t evolve from Twitter. YouTube started as a video content platform.

Hosting video is a completely different ball game to hosting… text. A toot is going to be a kilobyte or two. A few megabytes if you add images (images are the most expensive part of hosting a Mastodon instance).

A video is hundreds of megabytes, potentially even gigabytes, as I’m sure you’re very well aware while uploading to YT.

in reply to Randahl Fink

By the original reasoning, Google should only have 1 app. One single interface where YT/gmail/docs/Chrome/search should all exist under 1 UI, with frictionless functionality. Doubt it's gonna happen.

In an oblique context... you walk into a hardware store, and go to the paint counter. So do you think, 'I should be able to order what I want, in color and qty., just like getting ice cream at Baskin Robbins?

Not everything aligns perfectly. Restriction isn't always friction.

in reply to Randahl Fink

I agree that PeerTube is a difficult experience to navigate. What I don't agree with is that Mastodon specifically needs to compete with YouTube.

A better federated video platform could come along, or PeerTube could make some improvements, but you're definitely misunderstanding the feed you're looking at. The posts you see are not all from Mastodon, and you're already following and interacting with non-Mastodon accounts. Your choice of client is limiting you.

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source

Randahl Fink

@dennis_melhede I completely understand your frustration with YouTube ads, but please understand that YouTube pays for all the work going into making videos, like the ones I make.

You can then chose to watch ads, and have advertisers pay for the videos, or you can chose to pay yourself by subscribing to YouTube premium, in which case you see zero ads.

Content creators like me need to pay the bills like everyone else.